Leslie: Yes, yes. Well, she told me later she was trying to figure out if I was one of these flaky engineers that had been smoking a lot of dope...
Leslie: 是的。她说她想弄清我是不是那些吸麻醉香烟的古怪的工程师之一……
Both: (laughter)
Both:（笑）
Leslie: ...or whether I was substantially intellectual. I had strong mathematical skills, and she was a psychotherapy process researcher. She had worked with Rogers, who had developed process research, and she had developed a vocal quality scale, where you could actually listen to people's voices, both client and therapist, and she was trying to track the moment-by-moment influence of people's vocal quality or particular kinds of therapist actions on client vocal quality, and a few other variables. What you need in there is to track something in a statistical manner, moment by moment, which was called stochastic processes. Sort of, what's the probability if I do this, that you will, in the next moment, do that? That kind of thing. I had a strong mathematical background, and she saw the possibility of me working on that. She had just come up to York University from the University of Chicago, and she was a new professor starting the counseling and development program, and I went in saying, "I really like working with people, and I think I'm good with people. I don't really know much about sick people, so I don't want to go into clinical...counseling sounds right." It was because I had a very strong academic record, and they decided that they would take me. You know, that was the interaction, the combination that I fit into a vision that she had of something that she wanted to do.
Leslie: ……或者我是不是够聪明。我数学很好，而她研究心理治疗过程。Rogers做了过程研究，她跟Rogers一起工作过，她做音质测量，你可以听治疗师和来访者的声音，她试图跟踪双方音质的瞬间互动、或者治疗师具体行为对来访者音质的影响、以及其他类似变量。需要做的是用统计学方法时时刻刻记录随机过程。类似于，如果我这样做，那么下一刻你那样做的可能性多大？就是这种。我数学背景很强，她看中我可以做这件事。她刚从芝加哥大学到约克，是刚开始做咨询和发展研究的新教授，于是我说：“我喜欢跟人打交道，也擅长打交道。我对病人所知不多，我不想进临床领域……咨询听起来更好。”由于我的学术背景好，他们决定要我。靠那次交流，我进入她想做的事的视野。
Phil: So, it was the sense that you had an opportunity, that there was a place for you there, that there was an open door.
Phil:你感觉你得到了一个机会，有了一个给你的位置，一扇门打开了。
Leslie: Right. And so I just grabbed it, ya know. And it was amazing, because one of the things I say in retrospect, if I'd gone to the majority of other schools in North America at the time, I would have probably not flourished or I'd have found it incompatible. You know, all I knew was that she thought curiosity was important. Many schools were still behavioral or analytic and I wouldn't have fit into either of those, but I found a place that was highly humanisticly oriented, and she was highly humanisticly oriented.
Leslie: 对。我抓住了机会。真令人惊讶，回头来看，如果我当时去了北美的其它学校，我不会有后来的发展，可能很快发现不合适。而我所知道的一切不过是她认为好奇心很重要。当时很多学校仍是行为主义的或分析导向的，那对我都不合适，但我居然找到了一个高度人本取向的地方，她是高度人本取向的。
Phil: I notice you're still there.
Phil:而且到现在你仍然在这里。
Leslie: Yes; I left for twelve years, and I taught at UBC, in Vancouver. And then I came back, and in some ways I actually took her position after she retired.
Leslie: 对；我离开过12年，在Vancouver的UBC任教，然后回来。可以说在她退休后我接替了她的位置。
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