“我们需要场域支持才能不断组织。我们所不断组织的总是内在与外在的综合。某个瞬间我所组织的自我是依赖于场域的。。。。在场域作用下，自我在人际边沿形成。”
关于这段定义，你能联想起到什么吗？
最后感谢楚云舒的翻译。本译文是访谈的上部分，还有一个下部分，请诸位静心等待。
Phil: Well, that brings up something. When I've run across your writing, your work, I keep encountering the term "experiential," and then sometimes you call it "experiential-process," and I've been curious at times, really trying to understand Gestalt, I've given myself with a passion to understanding that, and I come to your work and I say, "Hm. Is he just using another word for Gestalt, or how does he conceive of Gestalt. What is this?"
Phil: 这引出了一些东西。我在你的著述和作品中经常看到“体验”这个词，有时候你把它称为“体验－过程”；我曾经对”完形”非常有兴趣, 并试图了解它。 读了你的作品，我就想：“哦，他只不过在用另一个词指代完形吗？他是怎么看待“完形”的？体验指什么？”
Leslie: It might help me to understand if you can just tell me a little bit of your background in Gestalt, and then I'll be able to relate.
Leslie: 告诉我一点你在“完形”方面的背景，这会帮助我理解你提的问题。然后我再回答你。
Phil: Okay. Going way back, during the time you were moving into the Toronto area, I was in the San Francisco bay area, and I was in the Navy, working on the psych wards at Oakland Naval Hospital. I was exposed to Gestalt - they used Gestalt and transactional analysis on the units there - through some people who were doing training with Fritz Perls and Jim Simkin down at Esalen, who would bring back what they were learning and use it on the unit. I was young, and the impact was fairly significant. After the service, I went on to do other things; I was in the ministry but always had this experiential, existential flavor to everything that I did. Several years ago I got out of the ministry and enrolled in a Psy.D. program. I also started training in Gestalt with Maya Brand and Carol Swanson. Along with their training, they would bring in trainers from outside, mostly from Los Angeles, so I've been exposed to Todd Burley, Bob and Rita Resnick, Jan Ruckert, Lynn Jacobs, and in the process got involved with AAGT. I went to the conference in New Orleans, met Iris Fodor...
Phil:好。你迁到多伦多的那段时间，我在旧金山海湾，在海军服役，在奥克兰海军医院的心理病房工作。我在那儿接触到完形疗法——他们用完形治疗和交互作用分析疗法——是一些在Esalen受过Fritz Perls 和Jim Simkin训练的人，他们把学到的东西带到医院里应用。那时我很年轻，这对我影响很大。服役之后，我改做其它一些事情：我在政府部门工，但我做的每件事都带有这体验性的、存在主义的风味。几年前我离开公职去读心理学博士，同时开始参加Maya Brand和Carol Swanson的完形培训。他们的培训经常外请一些培训者，主要从洛杉矶，所以我也接触过Todd Burley, Bob和Rita Resnick, Jan Ruckert, Lynn Jacobs,在此期间加入AAGT。我去过新奥尔良开会，在那里遇到Iris Fodor……
Leslie: Did we meet?
Leslie: 我们见过吗？
Phil: We met. We met at her workshop. As far as the theory goes, I have latched onto Bob Resnick's summary of it where he did that interview with Malcolm Parlett...The three main components are field, dialogue, and phenomenology.
Phil: 见过的。在她的工作坊见过。不管理论怎么发展，我还是牢记Bob Resnick会见Malcolm Parlett时做的总结……完形治疗最主要的三个成分是场域、对话和现象学。
Leslie:So,youhadaskedmewhatisthisexperientiallabel.Andletmegiveyouasortofane
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